DW: | Do you have a driver's license?
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Q: | Who's makin' the stop?
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DW: | He's makin' the stop. (referring to Ross)
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Q: | Why don't I talk to him?
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DW: | Do you want to talk to him?
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Q: | Well, is he makin' the stop?
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DW: | (garbled)
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Q: | Yeah, why don't you go ahead and do that. I think he and I have got some unfinished business anyway . . . If you don't mind . . . okay, the recorder's goin', by the way. Okay.
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JR: | Mr. Quigley, I stopped you for not having a motorcycle helmet.
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Q: | Oh, I think it goes deeper than that . . .
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JR: | Okay.
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Q: | . . . but that's okay, deputy.
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JR: | If that's your opinion, you're entitled to that, but ah I'm advising you why I stopped you.
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Q: | I appreciate that. Am I under arrest?
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JR: | No, you're gonna be cited for not having a motorcycle helmet.
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Q: | Am I under arrest?
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JR: | You're being detained and I'm going to issue a citation.
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Q: | Well, what if I were to ah . . . (he walked away toward his patrol unit) . . . I hate shouting at you. If I were to ah exercise my right under 4-0-3-0-2-C of the vehicle code, to be taken to a magistrate, what would you be tempted to do?
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JR: | Are you telling me you'd refuse to sign a citation?
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Q: | Why is it that you wanna put words in my mouth I didn't say. I said . . . lemme, lemme deal with my question . . .
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JR: | I going to issue a citation and then we'll take it from there sir. (long pause . . . garbled)
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Q: | I asked you a question . . . If I were to ask you under 4-0-3-0-2, if I exercised my demand to be taken to a magistrate . . .
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JR: | (garbled interruption)
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Q: | Why can't you answer my question, Deputy Ross? (He made some gesture indicating he was getting ready to place me under arrest.) You wanna cuff me up for asking a question, go ahead on. . . . (pause in the action while Ross retired to the rear of his patrol unit -- I then commenced talking to the training officer who was there for back-up, Deputy Henderson) I think this young fella needs a lesson, Deputy Henderson. Why don't we just go ahead and get me ready to go? (Stashing my gear.) I don't need any more of this stuff, I'm gettin' real tired of it. He's a bad cop. I think it's early on in his career, it's time for him to learn. By the way, you are a training officer, right?
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TO: | Yes I am.
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Q: | Could you answer that question for me?
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TO: | What's that?
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Q: | What is the procedure for somebody that exercises their right to be taken to a magistrate under 4-0-3-0-2-C?
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TO: | We don't have it happen very often, but if you demand to go before the magistrate, then you should go before a magistrate.
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Q: | It would seem that way to me. . . . (pause) . . . The procedure for that is? (pause) And the procedure for that is?
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TO: | Take you into custody?
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Q: | Well, to take me to the magistrate, how does that go?
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TO: | Well, we'd have to take you into custody and take you before the magistrate . . . if there's if there's one to be. If there's not one to be then you'll have to sit in jail until one is provided, I guess.
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Q: | Really?
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TO: | Yeah.
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Q: | Is that policy?
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TO: | I'm not sure we have a policy on that.
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Q: | Do you know what the law is on that?
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TO: | If a person refuses to sign the ticket, they go to jail.
(I pulled up my jacket to read a number that had just buzzed in on my pager . . . Deputy White got nervous.)
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Q: | (To White) No worries, my friend. (He got nervous when I reached for my pager.) I'm not a problem to anybody.
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DW: | That's good.
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Q: | But I don't like bad cops.
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DW: | Well of course, nobody does.
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Q: | Good. Then that one at the back of that car back there won't be around long? . . . because that's a bad cop. . . . (directed to the training officer) Ah, when a Citizen asks a question, are they entitled to an answer to a reasonable question?
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TO: | In a reasonable time, (garbled)
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Q: | Well I'm gonna ask him a couple more in a couple three minutes and I suspect I'm not gonna get any answers to any of 'em, because this is the old, you know, Ross knows it all. So, as training officer, you are a training officer, right?
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TO: | Yes.
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Q: | Okay. I'd like you to keep track of what's goin' down here because whether I do or whether I do not go into custody today, I think that that young gentleman back there's got himself in a pack of trouble. For the record, this is a violation of my Constitutional Rights. For the record. The case is Easyriders v. Hannigan, it's outta the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals . . . the stop is okay, the citation is a violation of my Constitutional Rights. I can show it to you in black and white. It's in the law books. And he knows, or reasonably should know that. . . . (pause -- I cut out some local political stuff here that had nothing to do with the stop . . . just friendly chatter, off the record) . . . (resume) . . . I got stopped the other day . . . I'm tryin' to remember the kid's name that stopped me on ah Sunday. I fell pretty bad about it. He's on the same shift as you are. I know he's one of your guys. Ah . . . starts with an "H" . . . young kid, blonde, tall. Real nice. Nice kid. He ah . . . this guy (referring to Ross) got in the middle of the conversation and I ended up coppin' an attitude on both to deal with the one. And I've been tryin' to get ahold of him to explain to him that none of that was fired at him, and I ah I'll try to get that back to him.
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TO: | What time of day Sunday?
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Q: | Ah, noon, straight up, man. It was one of those shoot-outs at twelve o'clock noon. Yeah, it was straight up. I looked down there . . . uh?
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TO: | I must have been day shift.
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Q: | Yeah. Yeah, Ross was there. Ross was the one that told him not to answer any of my questions. That's why I called the supervisor out, which I'm gettin' ready do in just a minute, by the way.
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TO: | (garbled)
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Q: | Sgt. Ruiz is on . . . or Ruez?
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TO: | Raez?
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Q: | Raez.
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TO: | I think he advised me. I think I heard him say you got cited.
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Q: | Yeah, I need I need him to come out. I'll just haven't called on him yet. We'll have to before I get done with this guy . . . 'cause he's ah . . . I see I see this changing my questions and accusing me of refusing to sign as a threat and I'm, I'll tell you right now, I'll never refuse to sign anything. If you push too hard to get the signature, it's not gonna be any good because under threat, duress and coercion, they're never any good. But ah . . . we'll see just how tight-lipped he's gonna be about my future. No need for any of that. This is a problem with the statute. It is not a problem with me. And it's certainly not a personality issue. And ah, the problem with the statute will be worked out in the courts. It doesn't matter if it's eight tickets or twenty-eight. But when you take three good cops off the street, four when the sergeant gets here, for a half-hour or more on any given day, over something that's confusion, ah waste of resources. It's a waste of resources. And that's not what I'm doin'. I had to get a couple of tickets to get it handled, but I don't need, I don't need to be hassled over it, and I damned sure don't need to be threatened with arrest.
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TO: | You give that impression . . .
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Q: | Oh, (garbled)
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TO: | You give that impression by continually wearing . . . riding without a helmet, until that's worked out with the courts, (garbled) . . .
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Q: | But you see, the problem is that this is a helmet. And that's the thing that nobody seems to understand.
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TO: | And, and . . . not according to what they read to us out of the diction . . . outta the Webster's dictionary, it's not.
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Q: | Webster's is your source . . .
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TO: | Well, (garbled)
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Q: | That's okay. If that's the enforcement policy of the department that's what I need to know.
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TO: | No, that's not what I said . . .
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Q: | Well . . .
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TO: | I said they read that to us . . . they, someone was questioning the definition of a helmet so they got out Webster's and read the definition in there.
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Q: | In the law library they've got three cases on it. One of them is Buhl. One of them is Hannigan (mistake, should have said "Bianco"). And the most important one is Easyriders, because that's out of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. According to Hannigan, and this is the exact language, the proposition that the statute would require a consumer or enforcement officer to determine proper helmet fabrication is absurd. All that's required is that the helmet bear a certification of compliance, which has since been interpreted to mean a DOT emblem. And Easyriders, there was a case after Buhl that was called Bianco, and they go to Bianco to cite the exception to "only", because everybody want's to, well, (displaying the DOT emblem on the back of my helmet) that can't mean it's a helmet. So there's an exception. Okay, there is. And is was defined by the case of Bianco v. CHP, codified by Easyriders, and it says that when the officer can show that the person being cited has actual knowledge that there's been a determination of non-compliance on his helmet, then they can write the ticket. Now I realize that all this language makes it all sound like gobbly-gook, but the fact of the matter is, that's correct. It's gobbly-gook! They wrote all that stuff to keep from takin' the law out for bein' vague. The bottom line is, absent a list of helmets that are helmets . . . a list. There's no way to determine what a helmet is. You have to rely on the DOT emblem. And even the DOT emblem, which is part of the thing that I'm gonna bring to the court's attention that wasn't discussed in any of these cases, the DOT emblem's not even required to be on the helmet. It's not required to go on the helmet. The DOT emblem can be on the box that the helmet came in. That's part of the standard. So it comes down to, what's a helmet? Now ya say, "Well this all seems pretty silly." Well, yeah it does. You guys think, because I've heard you say it . . . the first guy that stopped me was looking for a DOT certification number. Ain't no such critter. This was the first sheriff's office. The second sheriff's guy was looking for a DOT certified, or a DOT approved helmet. Ain't no such critter. It is self-certification. Whoever takes the product liability, certifies the helmet. It's a helmet. That's it! And until NHTSA, or an independent testing laboratory, tests the helmet in accordance with FMVSS 218, and it fails the testing, and there's a determination of noncompliance on the helmet, it's a helmet. It don't matter if it's a Dixie-cup and shoestring. It don't matter if it's a baseball cap lookin' thing. It's don't matter if it's a coconut shell. It don't make no difference. That's the law. . . . Now, don't you think it's a good idea to get rid of a law like that?
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TO: | Well, I used to rider, so I'm (garbled) in favor of the helmet law anyway, but . . .
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Q: | Personal feelings about helmet aside . . .
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TO: | That's right . . .
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Q: | Okay.
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TO: | I have no choice it this, so I do wish it was defined.
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Q: | Oh, it has to be. Everything that you have is defined clearly and it has to be.
(Ross approaches with his ticket book in hand.)
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JR: | Mr. Quigley.
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Q: | I need to talk to your sergeant.
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JR: | No problem.
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Q: | Good.
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TO: | I agree there needs to be a definition.
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Q: | Well, particularly because it's a correctable violation. That's what really makes it a bugga-boo and that's the thing I'm gonna bring to the court. That's how I think we're gonna get it, because if it's a correctable violation, which it is, okay, and the Attorney General of the State of California has agreed, separate from a court decision, but he is already in agreement when he was Senator. The Chief Justice of the Supreme Court has already agreed that it is a correctable violation. If it's a correctable violation, then it really gets hairy, because how do I correct it? If I come to you to sign it off and I'm holding something in my hand, and you say, "Yeah, that's a helmet" and you sign it off . . . I go ten feet and fall over and something happens to me and I get injured because of something to do with that helmet, who's liable? We can't put you guys in that position. Okay?
(The Duty Sergeant Joe Cervantez arrives, carrying Ross's citation book.)
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Q: | Joe. How you doin'.
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JC: | Hey, a wonderful day. I just came back from vacation. Had two wonderful days off.
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Q: | Well you look like you're feelin' a little gimpy, did you ah . . .
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JC: | Oh no, I'm part of a race team, and we raced on Sunday.
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Q: | Okay.
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JC: | . . . a little sore.
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Q: | By the way, I apologize for introducing the subject late, buy my recorder's running.
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JC: | I knew that.
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Q: | But you knew that, okay. Ah, okay, I asked your deputy here if I was under arrest and he said no, he was gonna write me a ticket. And then I asked him what would happen if I invoked my right under 4-0-3-0-2 and proceeded to go to jail . . . I mean, jail? I mean, go to a magistrate. And he don't wanna talk to me, Joe. He don't like to answer my questions, and not only that when were out in the field on Sunday, I got stopped by one of your other deputies, and he informed him not to answer my questions either. And if what you guys are doin' is real secret, then you ought not to be doin' it to the public, you know what I mean? So I'm gonna ask ya, if I invoke my right under 4-0-3-0-2-C to be taken to a magistrate, the purpose of which would be, by the way, for a probable cause hearing for the arrest.
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JC: | For the arrest?
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Q: | For the arrest, right. Because this is technically an arrest in California. If I were to make that demand to be taken to a magistrate for a probable cause hearing relative to this arrest, what would you guys do? What's your policy and procedure for dealing with that demand?
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JC: | Well technically, you're not under arrest according to the . . .
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Q: | No, technically I am. Okay, but it doesn't matter. If I invoke my right under 4-0-3-0-2-C, to be taken to a magistrate . . . ?
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JC: | We're not going to take you to a magistrate, right now.
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Q: | I understand that one too, okay. I mean, his question back to me was, "Are you refusing to sign the ticket?" and I hadn't said a damned word about signin' no ticket, he's just lookin' for a fight. I don't wanna fight with this guy. I don't like him. I don't wanna argue with him. I think we're gonna be better off when he joins Joe Heartsner (a sergeant who had been recently fired -- right cop, wrong reasons, but that's a different story), okay? So, we're . . . I know, your time's my time, it's all time, so I go back to ya, I wanna find out what would happen if I were to . . . and you weren't here, and nobody was here, I invoke my right under 4-0-3-0-2-C, clam up and don't talk to nobody until I get to a magistrate, what would happen to me?
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JC: | Nothing.
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Q: | He would get back in his car and go away?
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JC: | After you signed the citation.
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Q: | No, no no no no . . . we're not gonna talk about the citation. We're not gonna talk about any of that.
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JC: | Okay. Well, I'm a little confused . . . without having the statute in front of me here to read and research . . . (btw: NO officer, or damned few, know how to enforce this statute -- Joe's a good cop, and a smart one.)
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Q: | Okay, would you do me a favor? Would you please check for me the sheriff's policy manual, when you get around the sheriff's policy manual, and would look and find out what it is that you're supposed to do when somebody invokes 4-0-3-0-2-C. And when you get back to . . .
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JC: | We need to ask the DA's office, or it's something we're gonna have . . .
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Q: | Oh, you probably, no . . . when you turn that question in, they'll go runnin' up to county counsel because they're the ones that create all the problems anyway.
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JC: | What's that section again?
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Q: | 4-0-3-0-2 . . .
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JC: | Uh huh.
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Q: | . . . subdivision C.
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JC: | C . . . is that the vehicle code?
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Q: | Yeah.
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JC: | I'll research it . . . probably tomorrow. Probably give you the answer then.
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Q: | Okay. I'd appreciate it. I doubt that you'll get it that quick, but . . . we can do that.
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JC: | If no, . . .
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Q: | And ah now (he said, reaching for his driving license), he left when I started asking him questions, I didn't have a chance to give him my driver's license.
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JC: | Okay.
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Q: | And I haven't been able to show him my proof of insurance. Of course the bike's registered, that's all clear. Yeah, go ahead and inspect all that stuff.
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JC: | Is this address? Do you want us to use this address?
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Q: | Oh, that's the same one. Yeah.
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JC: | Okay. (garbled question)
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Q: | Well yeah . . . I'm out here, and I'm also in every respect, up to and including my helmet . . . we all know that true.
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JC: | (he handed me the citation book for my signature, and said something garbled)
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Q: | Ah, I'd appreciate if he's make a note on there that I was wearing something on my head that I claim is a helmet.
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JC: | He will make a note on the back. I'll make sure of that. There's a place for notes. Ah, he'll make a note.
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Q: | Okay, and then . . . is it or is it not correctable? He needs to finish filling out the citation. It's not complete.
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JC: | Do you know it is?
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Q: | No no. Ross knows it all. You can ask him. He knows everything. I done checked it out. (to White) So what do you think, deputy, am I just a hard case?
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DW: | (garbled)
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Q: | (garbled) I'm not a hard case.
|
TO: | But Richard . . .
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Q: | If you guys ever got in a jam and I was around, I'd be the first one in to help bail you out, how's that strike you? I know we can't imagine that, but it's true. He (referring to Ross) would be in it by himself, but . . .
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TO: | Richard, when you were talking earlier about not wasting deputies time . . .
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Q: | Yeah, I know.
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TO: | . . . and then you do it by throwing up this 4-0-3-0-2 . . .
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Q: | No no no no no, no no . . . the 4-0-3-0-2-C thing came up because I was . . well I was asked by a deputy earlier today, we were talking over there and I was asking him if he knew?
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TO: | What did he say . . .
(The sergeant returned with Ross's citation book.)
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Q: | (Looking at the citation and seeing the "non-correctable" box checked) And the disqualifying condition is . . .?
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JC: | I don't know, Richard.
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Q: | Just an arbitrary determination, right? Ross says so, it's so? I got it.
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JC: | Just sign this thing here.
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Q: | Alright. Well, tell him to do his research. There. Now see how easy that is?
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JC: | You know, I don't even know . . . (asking the training officer) which copy does he get?
|
Q: | I get the yellow one.
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TO: | Richard, Richard would know.
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Q: | It's also supposed to be marked non-correctable (wrong again, "correctable), but we won't we won't hold it up too hard. And ah . . .
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JC: | Hey, you enjoy the rest of the day, uh?
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Q: | I got plenty of people here that know I'm wearing my helmet? I know you don't agree that it's a helmet, but you all know I got something on my head and I'm at least claiming it's a helmet. And I figure that Ross either figures that I know it's not a helmet and I'm lying to him, or I'm believe it's a helmet and I'm too stupid to live and too worthless to kill. So . . . thank you Joe. Have a good shift. See you guys later. |
